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HELP!!!!!
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3687		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  L. Presnall [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:21 am ]
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Ok, so I take a guitar to a setup/repair guy who reportedly knew his stuff...(I was to be out of town for several days and thought this would get the guitar set up and the owner would be happy and so would I ) Long story short, the truss rod nut breaks off! The word from the guy is that it "just broke right off as soon as I turned the wrench a little"...anyway, he thought he could get the rod out somehow without removing the f/b...(it's a Martin-style rod, glued in)...today he tells me that no, he's done all he can...(I agree!!)...I'm torn between trying to remove the f/b and get the rod out, try to somehow salvage the rod that's there, or just chuck it all and make a new neck, f/b, inlays and the whole KnK...I know that other forum has a similar topic going with a Les Paul nut in the Repair section, but I'm not sure that'll help me and besides, I don't log in there nowadays....any ideas from fellas who've done this type of thing? Thanks! And thanks for letting me vent...I'm already gonna have to go to the altar Sunday for what I was thinking of the guy!
Author:  John How [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:37 am ]
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Tell your guitar tech to "loosen before tightening" from now on. I don't know but it sounds like the fretboard needs to come off. I wouldn't be thinking about building a new neck though. Just heat up the fret board and peel it loose. Check the frets.com site and such. Methods of heating include lamps and side bending blankets. Be sure to protect the guitar top though. use some sort of sharpened spatula to lift the board. Go slow and be careful.

Take your time and think this operation thru before proceeding though. I'm sure you'll get lots of advice here.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:52 am ]
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Was this the Martin style channel type truss rod? If so they are a buger to get out without messing up the slot. Get it good and warm to let the glue loose. I agree with John at you will need to remove the fretboard. With care you will not harm the inlays and should be able to re-use the fretboard with some clean-up. Did this neck have issues like a little to much back angle? my question is an atemp to figure out why the truss rod was tight enough to brake the rod off. I am assuming that the inner rod broke at the nut weld. It is possible that the rod was defective. but more often it is because it got over tightened. If there are neck issues to go along with this, I would replace the neck or at least reset it. I am not saying there is mind you. Just That over relief is the biggest culpret of Martin style one way truss rod failure.MichaelP38657.7473611111
Author:  Jimmie D [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:29 am ]
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Tough luck Larry. If removing the fret board doesn't work and you have to build a new neck, I have glued up 3 with stacked heels, scarf joints and neck inserts already in. If it will save you a little time, you're welcome to one of them.
Author:  L. Presnall [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:47 am ]
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Michael, yes it's a Martin style...and Jimmie, thanks so much! If it comes to it I may take you up on that!    Ironically, I just ordered 2 full-cut neck blanks to start my next batch of guitars with the John Mayes neck-making method...I'm using the LMI type truss rod now (but they are from Allied, if you can stand the irony of calling a truss rod purchased from Allied an "LMI type"!!)...so they don't glue in just in case this ever happens again! Say Jimmie, did you solve your problem over the weekend? My wife said something about a washer of some kind?

Larry
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:14 am ]
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Larry - I had to remove one of those Martin style rods a few years back, To aviod damage other than the damage from removing the fret board, I took some aluminum bar stock, 1/4 X 1" by about 8" long and held it against the truss rod and applied heat to the other end of the bar stock with a propane torch, the heat travled right now the and heated the rod and the epoxy let loose pretty quickly. No damage was done to the neck.
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:39 am ]
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Where did the rod break? If at the nut then it may be fixable. Frank Ford is the expert on this. You may want to shoot him an email Before doing anything.
Author:  L. Presnall [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:09 pm ]
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Dave, I'm wishing I could shoot him the NECK and let him do it!      Prob'ly couldn't afford to pay for Frank's knowledge and skill tho! Lance, are you saying you heated the f/b off then used the 8" bar on the rod? Where did the bar contact the rod? I was thinking of my side bending blanket to heat the board, then going from there somehow...Dave, the rod broke right at the nut from what I'm told...I haven't seen it yet...but, I will email Frank in any case...
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:58 pm ]
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Larry - yse, I used the barstock as a heat sink, and started down at the nut end, as the glue let loose I lifted the truss rod out. I had to remove the fretboard first.
Author:  L. Presnall [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:36 am ]
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And the sidebending blanket to remove the f/b I take it?
Author:  L. Presnall [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:07 am ]
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LeBump!
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:34 am ]
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Larry,
If it broke at the Nut it is likely that you can fix it. The process is explained on Frank's site. You re-thread the rod and you're good to go. Don't get too anxious...talk to Frank.
Author:  L. Presnall [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:51 am ]
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Dave,

Just emailed Frank and stored his # into my cell....hopefully this can be done without all the surgery, but I'm psyching up to go in if I have to! I'll let you know how it turns out!

Larry
Author:  Frank Ford [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:15 am ]
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Larry -

I don't like to have to admit it, but I've had that experience - twice. One
was on an old Epiphone, and I ended up removing the fingerboard and
replacing the rod. Of course, I did that as a free operation for the owner
whose guitar I broke! It's painful, but whenever we at Gryphon have such
an accident we take full responsibility and try our best to "make it right."

The second time was far more unpleasant. It was on a BRAND NEW
"celebrity" model Martin that had been purchased at another shop and
brought in for setup. The smallest turn on the truss rod snapped it right
off because it had been so seriously overtightened before I touched it.
This time, we had no alternative but to replace the guitar. No matter how
skillfully I'd be able to repair it, the thing wouldn't have been new any
more. Months later, I'd removed the fingerboard, replaced the truss rod,
touched up the finish, reset the neck, and sold the guitar as used - a
considerable loss of time and money.

If it seems that some shops charge a lot for repairs, remember that we
have hidden costs you may not know about!

As far as I know, the only viable way to replace the Martin style (actually
Japanese style) aluminum channel rod is to remove the fingerboard. I'd
tried heating that Martin rod with no luck - it got hot but I just couldn't
move it. After hearing Lance's description of success, I'll probably
continue trying to heat each broken one I may encounter to avoid that
nasty job of taking the neck apart.

I haven't tried it yet, but I wonder if it might be possible to excavate back
into the aluminum channel to expose a few more threads of that Martin
style rod, the way we can expose the Gibson style rods.

I'm adding this reply to the thread on OLF which, I must admit, I don't
visit often. Somehow, I just don't seem to be able to warm up to the long
outline form of the postings. Now that I mention it, is there a way to
change some setting so I'll see the forum laid out like Acoustic Guitar,
and those others that show just the topics all on one page?

Frank Ford38658.4732986111
Author:  LanceK [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:41 am ]
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Hi Frank!
To change the view click the "Active Topics" Button at the top - that will remove the cascading threads and give you a streamlined view.

Thanks
Lance

Author:  Mario [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:43 am ]
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You can pull the neck out, and using a cut off wheel on a Dremel, and files/small saw blades/etc, cut the aluminum 1/4"-3/8" past the break, chase some new threads on there, and you're back in business. No refinish, no re-fret. There should be plenty of rod length to do that with.

I've not broken one yet, but I use the same type rod, and for my 12 fret guitars, I cut and re-thread them as I explain above. Works well.

Lubricate the thing before putting the nut back on! I use "Never Seize" on all of mine(well, nearly all, as I forget one here and there <bg>).
Author:  L. Presnall [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:44 am ]
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Hi Frank, well, if the rod can be fixed without taking the neck apart that'd be my dream scenario...the guy mentioned that he "thought he pushed the rod in further" trying to salvage the operation after the nut broke off...so I haven't seen the guitar yet and am leaving town today til Saturday...I suppose I'll get it back and take a photo or two of the nut/rod and post here for more wisdom...I guess worst case is I make a new neck...too bad I wasn't using the LMI type rod that doesn't glue in when I built this one!
Author:  L. Presnall [ Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:27 am ]
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Mario, I think I'll try that before I do anything else...I mean, if it doesn't work for me I still have to remove/replace/recarve etc. anyway...Thanks for the idea!
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